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» Welcome From Knights Templar
Thoughts So Far Empty6/5/2021, 7:07 pm by Coco

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Thoughts So Far Empty17/11/2010, 2:22 pm by Coco

» Fleet / Team listings
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Thoughts So Far Empty7/11/2010, 7:52 pm by Valentine Fox

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Thoughts So Far Empty3/11/2010, 10:27 pm by Blackknight8x

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Thoughts So Far Empty2/11/2010, 12:45 am by Blackknight8x

» Thoughts So Far
Thoughts So Far Empty1/11/2010, 11:57 pm by Reuster

» Match details
Thoughts So Far Empty1/11/2010, 8:07 pm by Ghost_2012

» Match results
Thoughts So Far Empty1/11/2010, 8:38 am by Valentine Fox

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    Thoughts So Far

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    Valentine Fox


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    Thoughts So Far Empty Thoughts So Far

    Post by Valentine Fox 1/11/2010, 9:02 am

    Since it seems that we're finished with Season 1 now, it would be the perfect time I think to put down some quick thoughts on the League so far; I'll try not to only express my personal opinion, but that of my fleet too.

    Firstly, it's been fun. It's great to have competitive tournaments like this for the benefit of the PvP community, and KT deserve a massive thank-you for all of the work they've put into it, setting it up and keeping it running smoothly (especially Blackknight8x). I think that it has been very well organised and managed. I sincerely hope more fleets are able to join in Season 2; the wider the participation, the more fun I think we can all have.

    However, I think that ultimately, to attract more fleets, the appeal of the competition (and its rules) have to extend wider than just the hardcore PvP fleets like TSI, OoV, etc. Of course no matter what the setup those fleets are going to naturally dominate, but that's why we have the separation into League 1 & League 2, so their natural superiority is not an inherent issue. What I think has been a major issue for what I'll call "casual PvP fleets" (such as Aurora Fleet and VKF) is the whole team roster system.

    For dedicated PvP fleets comprising dedicated PvPers, it's obviously not hard to be able to rely upon the same small number of people consistently; those people live and breathe PvP, and will make the time in their schedules to prioritise important PvP matches so they can attend.

    For casual PvP fleets, that's not the case though. We may only have half a dozen people interested in PvP, let alone any good at it. "So don't participate in tournaments like this," you may say. Alright then, I would respond - but what better way to encourage more interest and participation in PvP, than by things like the League? And what better way for newer PvP teams to get experience, to have a chance to play against the best, and get that crucial experience?

    But for a casual fleet, getting the exact same 5-8 people online at the same time regularly is, to be blunt, somewhere on the scale between "hellishly difficult" to "outright impossible". VKF and Aurora Fleet don't have any lack of active members - on average during peak playing times, Aurora usually has 12-14 players online, for example. Yet both fleets have had to forfeit the majority of their matches, which I think is incredibly sad. Especially because we might have plenty of people online able and willing to field a 5v5 team, but we're simply not allowed to use them due to League rules.

    But then even if we could rely on the same 5 people to show up each week - what good is the League for our casual fleets as a learning tool, a training experience, if it only benefits a tiny minority of our fleet memberships?

    The change to the rules regarding substitutions/reserves in Season 2 is a step in the right direction to alleviating the problem, helping ensure full teams and opening up wider participation. At the end of the day though, I always believe the simplest solution is the best solution to any problem, and rather than yet more addendums and side-rules to what is arguably becoming a rather obtuse and complicated rule-set regarding team rosters ... why not just do away with the whole roster system? Why not allow a fleet to simply use whatever 5 players they like for each match?

    That would be my ideal anyway. But for now I guess the ability to change the 3 reserves at any time (with notice) does help.

    So, despite our reservations, I think Aurora Fleet will seek to continue to participate in the League in Season 2, despite the fact Season 1 has basically for us been one long, failing struggle to be able to play even a single proper match (two 4v4s with VKF, and one 5v5 with FSI that technically was illegal due to using non-rostered fleet members - the rest, all forfeits). And simply hope that the rule change in Season 2 will make things better for casual fleets like ours.

    On that note, if we do continue into Season 2, I think we'd like to voluntarily demote ourselves from League 1 to League 2; a place in League 1 should be for the best PvP fleets in the competition, and although technically we've secured ourselves a place in it, morally I feel it isn't justified, especially given the fact that technically we've not been able to play one single proper 5v5 match for the League yet. Therefore Aurora should be where it belongs, as an amateur casual PvP fleet, in League 2 - and truly earn a spot in League 1 later.

    Anyway that's all from me, thanks again to KT for everything, and even though I obviously don't think it's a perfect setup for every fleet, I do absolutely support and encourage the League and its principles; long may it continue, and grow in popularity. :-)
    Blackknight8x
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    Thoughts So Far Empty Re: Thoughts So Far

    Post by Blackknight8x 1/11/2010, 4:32 pm

    Hey Valentine Fox,

    Thanks for leaving us some feedback on the league so far. I understand where your coming from and having to forfeit a match is never fun. We changed 3 rules and added one for season 2 to help with fielding enough players each week. With the rules updated you can now play up to 12 players per season. This should help the more casual teams in the league but if it doesn't we will look at the rules again closer to the end of season 2.

    We will move the AF down into league 2 as you have requested for next season. This will mean that TSI and KT will be moving up to league 1 for season 2 as KT are in 2nd place in league 2.

    Again thank you for your feedback and good luck with season 2!


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    Reuster
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    Thoughts So Far Empty Re: Thoughts So Far

    Post by Reuster 1/11/2010, 11:57 pm

    Very well thought out and verbalized (or written?!?)

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